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  • A different 5 elements framework

    Posted by Silvia on February 2, 2021 at 7:44 pm

    I’m not sure if this is within the scope of this forum, since it has to do with a different practice of the 5 elements – but I’m intrigued and did not think of a better place to ask my questions 🙂

    I have recently come across Mingtong Gu’s Healing Sounds meditation, and was stunned to see a completely different approach to the 5 elements (well, maybe not completely different… let’s say significantly different!)

    First, a brief introduction to Mingtong Gu. He has learned the practices from the Medicineless Hospital in China, and currently has a big center in Santa Fe, NM. His Healing Sounds meditation is very interesting, because he uses 3 different sounds for each element – for physical, emotional and spiritual aspects. His energy is amazing – completely Fire/Love, totally shining, don’t need to see him walk to assess his first element :).

    Here are the things that totally intrigue and fascinate me, for which I would LOVE to understand the bigger picture:

    <div>*He is doing the Healing Sounds practice in the reverse Control cycle direction (Fire – Water – Earth – Wood – Lung). Why would that be? I think of this cycle (perhaps from your teaching, Leta), as being a destructive one: Fire burns so hot that evaporates Water, Water overwhelms the Earth with floods, Earth destroys Wood through Earthquakes, etc (don’t have an equivalently vivid image for the Wood – Metal and Metal – Fire interaction). I get the sense that it has to do with destroying some physical, emotional or spiritual pathogens, but can’t put this in the bigger picture.

    *He is seeing the Pancreas and Stomach as the Earth organs – these are Yang organs, and not Yin, like the organs associated with the other 4 elements. Moreover, the Pancreas is the element he sees as primary for Earth, when it does not even have a meridian, and is rarely mentioned in what I’ve seen so far. In addition, during the meditation, he brings in the Colon, traditionally associated with the Lung/Metal, and the Small Intestine, a Fire organ. He talks about all of these as the Digestive System which makes a lot of sense, but it is so different from other Qigong. To tell you the truth, this association is easy for me to see, easier than associating the Colon with the Lung and the Small Intestine with the Heart, which I struggled a lot to understand, but finally accepted and are ingrained in me.

    *He is doing the Liver and Spleen together, associated with the Wood element, as the transformation organs. I can see that – but I’m struggling with dissociating the Spleen from Earth, and since I always add color in (even though he does not – at least in the very elementary things that I’ve seen), it gets very confusing during the actual practice.

    All that being said, the practice is wonderful, and the sounds incredibly powerful – so I get into my body and let go of any worries. But I am convinced that there is a way to integrate his approach with the more common 5 element framework.

    Leta, or anyone else – do you have any insights? Of course, if you think this is an appropriate topic for discussion for this forum!




    Silvia replied 3 years, 2 months ago 2 Members · 9 Replies
  • 9 Replies
  • Silvia

    February 2, 2021 at 8:26 pm

    On a second thought, I think Mintong Gu has Earth as the first element, because I think he is all about the community – simply beaming love. It was this shining light that made me think of Fire, but I don’t think he is driven by the desire of people liking him. Anybody has any experience with him?

    • Leta

      February 3, 2021 at 9:40 am

      I really think he’s Fire, more than Earth. Now his wife is a big part of it, she might be Earth or Wood. I’ve not seen her. I just know she’s the force behind the way it’s presented.

      • Silvia

        February 3, 2021 at 10:45 am

        After posting this last night I listened to last week’s session, where Nick brought up the Disney princesses as being fire – and thought back that Mingtong should be fire.

        And then I thought of Snow White, who seems different than the other princesses (if I remember correctly 😍): she does not seem to have that ‘will they like me’ ingredient, she beams love unconditionally to all the 7 dwarfs. It was in this sense that I thought Mingtong is Earth and not Fire. Or, is he a Fire who transcended that element of the constitution?

        This discussion is relevant for me, because initially I thought I had Earth as my third element, only to realize that behind all my community-focused activity, and seemingly altruistic nature, there is an element of selfishness, I’m doing it for me, for the heart connection, and I desire some recognition.

        It is because of this that I switched to Earth – there is nothing I see in Mingtong that strikes me as desiring recognition.

  • Leta

    February 3, 2021 at 9:36 am

    Hi Silvia, We love Mingtong. A lot of clients work with him and have been to his place in NM. He’s great. I think we’re totally in alignment. And yes, he’s totally Fire!

    When you go in reverse control cycle, that’s an Alchemical idea for longevity. It is called the insulting cycle, but normally it’s a negative way to look at it, In Healing sounds it’s to heal the “insulting” in your life 🙂

    The Earth Element is the same. It’s Stomach and Spleen/Pancreas. In Chinese Medicine, the Spleen and the Pancreas are the same organ. The spleen/pancreas is a yin organ. The stomach is a Yang organ. So he isn’t seeing it different at all. It’s fine to say Pancreas is primary. It’s the same as the Spleen. They are synonymous in Chinese Medicine. The Pancreas meridian is the Spleen meridian. 🙂

    I don’t understand the distinction you’re making about the colon and small Intestine. They are digestive organs.

    • Silvia

      February 3, 2021 at 10:36 am

      Thank you SO much, it makes a lot of sense!! Healing the insulting in your life! I love it!! Of course what he is doing is Alchemy!!

      I did not know that the Pancreas is the same as the Spleen, so at that top level things are the same.

      In the meditation, when he gets to the Earth element, he has us focus on the complete digestive system, and explicitly mentions the Pancreas, Stomach, Small Intestine and Colon, and talks about the power of transformation.

      When we go to the Wood element, he has us focus on the liver and the spleen as the purification elements (I made a mistake in my original post, when I said he associates transformation with Wood).

      • Leta

        February 3, 2021 at 10:30 pm

        Ahhh that makes sense – I like that… the purification elements for Liver and Spleen.

        And yes, those are the digestive organs… so digestion is primarily Earth with the help of Fire (transformation) and Metal (recycling and elimination).

        • Silvia

          February 10, 2021 at 8:36 pm

          Thank you, that makes so much sense to the Metal element in me! The SI comes in as the fire for transformation, and the Colon as the Metal for elimination!

  • Leta

    February 3, 2021 at 9:39 am

    I’m sure it’s confusing. But I don’t believe he’s going to say Liver and Spleen are Wood organs. He is a Chinese Medicine practitioner too. So I’m guessing he’s associating them in some other sense, and there’s just a confusion about how he’s presenting it. He might be talking about “Liver invading Spleen” as a Wood issue, which is a common discussion.

    It’s wonderful work!

    BTW We’re going to be posing a Qi Gong, Dao Yin video soon in the Alchemy Learning Center as well!

    • Silvia

      February 10, 2021 at 8:51 pm

      You are right – he never said that the Spleen was a Wood element. He actually does not mention the 5 elements specifically at all – only uses the colors and the organs. That was my conclusion, based on the fact that when we do the Liver for the purification system, he mentions the spleen.

      <div>Thank you for your insight, I have everything I need!</div><div>

      (BTW – I tried to copy and paste his Healing sound guidance, just for reference, but was not successful)


      • This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by  Silvia.

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